I cosign Blue Heelers

[wyatt]

I may have judged the breed a little too harshly based off those show line dogs just used for a dick boost. From what i’ve seen now they are like I viewed them before. Rough, versatile blue collar dogs, like the Black Mouth Cur. I’ve seen a lot be used in hunting various wild game, mostly coyotes and hogs and some more, usually a mix but i’ve seen pure bred ones do it too. As for cattle, they do good at that too, even so. Although unlike the Border Collie they don’t participate in precise herding. If I had to list the Australian Cattle Dog/Blue Heeler as a dog breed I would be confused. The breed seems like a Cur, even though with a little more emphasis on working cattle. gunb may have educated me a bunch on the breed.

I know the breed is very predatory but theres not much about them on the news or mainstream media doing it, unlike many others. Although I have searched and dug hard in the internet and found a lot of hunting videos/photos with these dogs.

[gunb]

I assume you've seen this-



Thoughts? 

She seems kind of heeler biased and tbh her heeler doesn't even seem like a real working dog (in fact her collie seems more like a working dog), BUT I think she's basically right about her assessment of the comparison at the same time. 

[wyatt]

Apr 3, 2023 10:48:12 GMT gunb said:

I assume you've seen this-



Thoughts? 

She seems kind of heeler biased and tbh her heeler doesn't even seem like a real working dog (in fact her collie seems more like a working dog), BUT I think she's basically right about her assessment of the comparison at the same time. 

Now in some shes not wrong but there are 2 things i’d like to address.

”The sheep know the Border Collie isn’t gonna eat them, the Australian Cattle Dog they think he would given the opportunity.”
I have no idea what this means, as sheep think all dogs wanna eat them. Theres a reason that other wildlife biologists say sheep and cattle view dogs as wolves, which dogs absolutely are wolves, but they view them the exact same as well. Thats why I hear many times that this is why herding dogs are bred and kept to resemble wolves in appearance. Like pointed ears. Now all dogs, regardless of how they look are going to make sheep scared. But they use the wolfy appearence to make sheep even more frightened since they think a huge wild canid is coming towards them. Border Collies and Australian Cattle Dogs would both kill livestock given the opportunity. 

And we can go around in circles all day about what she said about Border Collies in her description. Yes, the true Border Collie doesn’t use much bite. Yes, Heelers were meant for mostly feral cattle and Border Collies usually work broke sheep and cattle. But that doesn’t mean the Border Collie is any less great, it just means that they had two different jobs. The cow-dog lined Border Collies can work feral cattle too. Kelpies can work feral cattle. Its all about what you want and what you need for a herding dog of you want one.




“They crossed the Dingo”
This is false, and a myth. This is addressed in the book “A Dog for the Job: Australian Cattle Dog.” 
The dingo was never intentionally added to the Australian Cattle Dog. They are gritty and can work feral cattle, but those traits arose without the Dingo needed to be added in.

[gunb]

This video too talks about comparing Kelpies and Border collies (and a little bit of heeler comparison as well), she says kelpies and border collies are basically the same just adapted for different climates/terrains.



On the dingo blood... I thought it was confirmed to be untrue about kelpies, but still possibly true about ACDs? I may have that backwards. Not sure. This lady above also talks about kelpies having dingo blood. One is definitely untrue, but I forgot which one. Heelers obviously have a bunch of stuff in them. 
Kelpies do incidentally LOOK a lot like dingoes, and being mostly collie it is a little odd how well adapted for desert heat and terrain they are and then how dingo like they are in appearance.
Note these are actually pure dingoes-

[wyatt]

Apr 3, 2023 12:45:03 GMT gunb said:

This video too talks about comparing Kelpies and Border collies (and a little bit of heeler comparison as well), she says kelpies and border collies are basically the same just adapted for different climates/terrains.



On the dingo blood... I thought it was confirmed to be untrue about kelpies, but still possibly true about ACDs? I may have that backwards. Not sure. This lady above also talks about kelpies having dingo blood. One is definitely untrue, but I forgot which one. Heelers obviously have a bunch of stuff in them. 
Kelpies do incidentally LOOK a lot like dingoes, and being mostly collie it is a little odd how well adapted for desert heat and terrain they are and then how dingo like they are in appearance.
Note these are actually pure dingoes-

Australian Kelpies were proved through studies by scientists to not show any Dingo lineage.

With Australian Cattle Dogs, Kaleski made the assumption the dogs must have been dingo crossed because of how they work. He tried to prove that the strong nip of the Australian Cattle Dogs, along with their appearance and unpredictability must have been of the Dingo. He ignores that many other wild canids do this, and dogs will do this. 

And about everything else about what she said, i’d agree with everything.
Although she has to realize the reason the Kelpies and the Border Collies have different working styles to the Australian Cattle Dogs and Curs is because of what they were meant to do. Farmers/ranchers wanted a dog that can be extremely biddable, and could be a precise herder. Mostly on sheep that occasionally needed to be brought back to the farm after grazing time. The Border Collie pioneers that. Then there comes the Kelpie which is extremely similar to the Border Collie and their working styles are extremely similar. The “strong eye” is meant to be an efficient way of controlling the stock without actually having to go after them. The eye intimidates sheep. With sheep, this is very efficient. Cattle, not so much.


Australian Cattle Dogs and Curs were not meant for precise herding and are droving dogs and are usually brought out when the farmers/ranchers need the dogs to deal with mostly feral, untame cattle. Using a strong eye in their working style when dealing with those types of cattle would not be as efficient. Its just a matter of what farmers/ranchers want from a dog, which is why there are so many different working stock dog working styles.

[GatorAid]

Apr 4, 2023 3:13:21 GMT wyatt said:

Apr 3, 2023 12:45:03 GMT gunb said:

This video too talks about comparing Kelpies and Border collies (and a little bit of heeler comparison as well), she says kelpies and border collies are basically the same just adapted for different climates/terrains.



On the dingo blood... I thought it was confirmed to be untrue about kelpies, but still possibly true about ACDs? I may have that backwards. Not sure. This lady above also talks about kelpies having dingo blood. One is definitely untrue, but I forgot which one. Heelers obviously have a bunch of stuff in them. 
Kelpies do incidentally LOOK a lot like dingoes, and being mostly collie it is a little odd how well adapted for desert heat and terrain they are and then how dingo like they are in appearance.
Note these are actually pure dingoes-

Australian Kelpies were proved through studies by scientists to not show any Dingo lineage.

With Australian Cattle Dogs, Kaleski made the assumption the dogs must have been dingo crossed because of how they work. He tried to prove that the strong nip of the Australian Cattle Dogs, along with their appearance and unpredictability must have been of the Dingo. He ignores that many other wild canids do this, and dogs will do this. 

And about everything else about what she said, i’d agree with everything.
Although she has to realize the reason the Kelpies and the Border Collies have different working styles to the Australian Cattle Dogs and Curs is because of what they were meant to do. Farmers/ranchers wanted a dog that can be extremely biddable, and could be a precise herder. Mostly on sheep that occasionally needed to be brought back to the farm after grazing time. The Border Collie pioneers that. Then there comes the Kelpie which is extremely similar to the Border Collie and their working styles are extremely similar. The “strong eye” is meant to be an efficient way of controlling the stock without actually having to go after them. The eye intimidates sheep. With sheep, this is very efficient. Cattle, not so much.


Australian Cattle Dogs and Curs were not meant for precise herding and are droving dogs and are usually brought out when the farmers/ranchers need the dogs to deal with mostly feral, untame cattle. Using a strong eye in their working style when dealing with those types of cattle would not be as efficient. Its just a matter of what farmers/ranchers want from a dog, which is why there are so many different working stock dog working styles.

Why didn't he consider it's due to blue heelers being part EBT???